Apex Fees/trophies credits

Apex Soccer League: APEX SOCCER LEAGUE: Apex Fees/trophies credits
By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 08:50 pm:

Hi Apex GM ,

I know that times are hard for all of us and apex have recently increased the prices to play this great game we all love.

What I wanted to know and get feedback from all managers and yourself Steve GM is......

1. Do everyone think that the price per game is value and worth it?

2. Do everyone think that the price for entering the League Cup is worth it?

3. Do everyone think that the price for entering the KO Cup is worth it?


Steve GM, with the increase in prices have you increased the amount of ' game credits' we can get for winning titles and cups and runners up places etc?

Also what is the actual amount of 'game credits' we can win for titles, cups, runners up etc etc? Could you please let us all know?

I there anyway of increasing membership without much cost for apex guys and gals?

Are the any ideas from us managers on how we can keep not just EP going which obviously is doing very well and is highly populated with managers but also the bread and butter prems in apex?

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 08:52 pm:

P. S......

Does anyone actually receive or want/get actual trophies for winning titles/cups etc?

By Philip Burton (Lordburt) on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 09:24 pm:

Used to collect and enjoy the trophies 20 odds years ago but wouldnt be interested in getting them now. At £1.25 i can live with the increase, £6 for the League Cup seems a little steep and i can see it putting plenty off entering. I finished 2nd in P1 last season so what sort of credits would i get for that??? Its not written anywhere. I think the TM needs livening up in the normal prems.

By Mackenzie Hope (Macca) on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 10:05 am:

I am always sending emails to the GM re suggestions for APEX and to be fair to the GM he does always respond.

Here are a few which I haven't yet mentioned to the GM but would be good to hear his views on them.

1. Let's get rid of the 25% bank balance tax at the end of a season , trying to get cash only deals is difficult knowing clubs will lose a quarter of the money come the end of the season.

2. Increase player squads to say 17 or 18 and this way surely the transfer market will improve.

3. Get rid of the 2nd round byes in the cups by entering more unmanaged sides , this way most clubs will play more games which in turn may make the cost of entering more worthwhile. This one I have mentioned to the GM as I feel it is unfair on the clubs who receive byes through no fault of their own. The form and morale gained from 2 extra games in the cups could be a season changer.

These are just a few of my suggestions but would be good to hear other managers suggestions.

By Mackenzie Hope (Macca) on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 10:18 am:

Would managers like to see specific player positions or would this complicate the game ? ie full backs and centre halves instead of just defenders

What about increasing the amount of sponsorship on offer ?

By Philip Burton (Lordburt) on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 11:07 am:

A couple of thoughts ive had that would be fairly simple to include and might improve the transfer market are:

1. Allow every side the chance to buy 1 player from an unmanaged club at a set stage during the season (game 23/24?) On-line managers can look through the divisions and decide who they would like to bid for and how much, off-line managers can request/receive 3 team sheets of unmanaged club or look through match reports to decide to to bid for. The poorest of clubs then have a good chance of buying decent players too, If 2 clubs bid for the same player the highest bid gets him. That way people wont just bid for the highest rated players in case they get out bid. some teams could bag a real bargain this way!!!

2. If end of season ratings were adjusted slightly so 7+/7s only dropped to 6+s then they players would still hold some value and people might be more inclined to keep them or coach them up from 6s, Currently 6s are surplus to most sides needs but 6+s might not be. It might encourage managers to not simple retire unwanted players.

By Jamie McEwan (Jamierrch) on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 02:16 pm:

To be fair to the GM, when I started Apex in 1995 the cost per game was £1 so for a price increase for the first time in 18 years cant be too bad. Granted in that time, both cups have increased by £1 or so over the years.

I notice that there are fewer teams entering the league cup in P21 (don't know about the decrease in participation in any of the other prems). If you want to win the league cup then byes can be a good thing but those two extra games make the entrance fee more value for money and also the chance of increased form from coaching, mom awards, goals and clean sheets.

I forgot about games credits for winning the league and / or cups. Perhaps Steve can explain if this is still part of the game or has been done away with.

I suggested a few years ago about the possibility of RB, LB and CB instead of just Defs with the same position changes for Mids and Atts, don't know how easy the program could cope with this though.

I recall that there was a season where if there were players continually not being played, the idea was that they handed in a transfer request and Steve would put these players on the transfer market at a value he suggested. Re-introducing this idea would mean that managers would need to use their full squad and not just play the same 10 / 11 outfield players.

What about increasing the number of outfield players required to 15 / 16.

This game can be so frustrating when a hit goes on a player who doesn't play too often. Is there any merit on managers nominating to Steve which player we would like the hit to go on. Infact, I remember the days when you used to lose a hit if you Lost Lost, Lost Drew or Drew Lost in a turn.

Is 4 games per turn too many? There was a time when it was just two games every turn except after the Christmas / New Year break.

I like the idea of being able to buy a player from an unmanaged team at game week 24. Lets face the facts, I don't imagine that there are going to be too many new members joining Apex and wishing to manage an unmanaged team.

Great thread Dunny and the contribution of all to try to help our great game going for many years to come.

Jamie

By Mackenzie Hope (Macca) on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 02:30 pm:

Would any managers be interested in a purely on line weekly league where playing 1 or 2 games a week so any suspensions and injuries would have less impact as regards the GM sometimes picking the replacement ?

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 06:45 pm:

Great input/ideas guys, keep em coming and hopefully Steve GM will pop on and give us some feedback as well.

I hope we get a wide variety of views even from those managers in EP leagues such as the Jaggs bros who I respect a lot.

By Simon Wynne (Portsmouthpark) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 10:34 am:

I agree with a number of the comments here.

The big one for me would be for the GM to liven up the transfer market by putting players from unmanaged teams on the transfer market.

Also the 25% tax dissuades from cash deals as any cash coming in will be taxed.

I'm also very much in favour of not making 7's go down to 6. 6+ would be the fairest solution so at least you can get them upto 7 with 5 coaching sessions and a few games.

We all know 6 rated players are pretty much useless and in the last 2 seasons ive had 7 rated get to 98 and 99 respectively in form - then just drop back to 6 rated at the start of next season. Seems hardly fair that happens.

Above all - we all love the game for it's quirkiness and whereas a major overhaul wouldn't necessarily a good idea - some progressive "tweaks" are needed as it seems to me there are a lot more managers leaving than are joining.

By Michael Eddisford (Steady) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 10:49 am:

Great thread.

This is something myself and Mac have discussed regularly over the last few months. I like most of the idea above.

The re-ratings are something that were changed a while back but I don't think they really worked. I like the current systwem but can see the reasoning behind changing.

I also think the tax should disappear and I believe that everyone should have the choice of hiring a Trainer or Coach but can only choose one....

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 11:51 am:

Does anyone actually know how many credits 'game' credits you get for winning a cup or a title or coming runners up?

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 11:54 am:

What about instead of getting game credits for winning a cup or a title you can choose either a young 6*+ or plain NS 7?

Or if you get a runners up in a cup or 2nd,3rd, 4th in the league you can choose either game credits or a 6*?

Something along these lines and would be very easy for apex to do?

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 11:55 am:

I like the idea of 7s,7+ going down to a 6+.

By Steven Campanelle (Campo1976) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 06:49 pm:

Great thread Dunny. Here are my personal opinions on things that could be done to improve things:

1) Totally agree with the 7/7+ rated players who would be useless 6 raters at the start of the new season. To revert them to a 6+ would add a whole new dimension to squad management, which leads me to my next point....

2) Personally, I'm not in agreement with increasing the minimum outfield players in a squad, if the above approach was to be adopted, I think a bigger squad would be wanted by more managers as those unwanted hits, currently going on a 6 or 6* rated player would go on a suddenly much more valuable 6+/6*+.

3) Transparency on how many game credits you get for a League/Cup/Divisional title win. Again, personally, in my humble opinion, credits should be given towards next season. Not new players, or cash to the clubs, just to the managers account.

4) More 'New Finds.' In EP19, to keep the league fresh, new 'real life' players currently not in the game, are added on occasion to keep the game current and fresh. A mix of 'Highest Bidder Only' and '5th Highest Bidder' are essential in my opinion so that a) cash stays in vogue, and that the poorer clubs stand a chance of getting a new players. Perhaps two or three times per season rather than the current once after game 2.

5) Leave positions as they are. The beauty of Apex, and one of the reasons I came back several years ago, is that it is easy to actually play the game. Difficult to master, yes, but to just pick a side and a formation is relatively easy. Adding positions would definitely require a big squad. What happens to clubs with small squads already? Do they get given new players? Would this be fair to other sides? I'm not sure it's required anyway.

6) Utilizing the TM more. On occasion Steve GM does put unmanaged sides better players up on the TM, and this should be applauded. Two things I have noticed with this is, that the money suddenly becomes 'dead' that unmanaged side will never make a bid for a managed sides players. Secondly, a hell of a lot of unmanaged sides haven't been managed for a long time and they have very old squads. Granted, some have younger players, but what happens when these dry up?

As said, at the start of the thread, really good to see so many people interested in improving the game and lots of great ideas, even the ones I don't necessarily agree with, but it shows people are thinking about how to keep this great game going.

Apex should have an evolution, but most definitely not a revolution.

Campo

By Steven Campanelle (Campo1976) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 06:55 pm:

I also things Macca's idea of a purely 'online' premier playing two games every week is a brilliant idea. I mean, come on lads, who likes waiting two weeks for results???? :)

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 07:05 pm:

What about a online champions league format? Top 4 teams from each prem enter in group stages so run along the same format as the 'real' champions league? Is it feasible ?

Would mean saving the player stats/squad from each season end of season and when each prem has finished we start the champions league?

By Mackenzie Hope (Macca) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 09:17 pm:

Good to see so many managers wanting to see the game develop in some way.

Like the idea of 7 rated players dropping to 6+ at the end of the season and yes as Campo says would probably increase squad sizes.

Also as regards my suggestion of an on line league - I'm not suggesting a brand new league but potentially if any Prem had no off line managed sides then maybe this Prem could be trialled as an on line league.

By Mackenzie Hope (Macca) on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 09:29 pm:

Think it was Dunny who mentioned about a recruitment drive and not sure how easy it would be but a thought I had was to possibly post a link of the APEX website onto all professional clubs and the football pyramid clubs message boards .

Obviously we are talking over 100 odd clubs and could be very time consuming due to registering onto such sites but if you got 1 new member from say every 2 clubs or even every 5 clubs it's still a new influx of managers.

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 12:05 am:

Great idea Macca.

By Michael Eddisford (Steady) on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 08:39 am:

Hi All

With regard to the the game credits that you get for winning I had some dialogue with the GM about this at the end of the last season and I think the prizes are as follows;

Divisional winers - 10 game credits
Divisional runner ups - don't know this one
CUP winners - 8 game credits
Cups runners up - 6 game credits

That is based on what I got for Rossy Rockets (P21) and Chaser (P5) in the last season.

For what it's worth there are a lot of great ideas on here. The ideas I feel strongest about are leaving the ratings system as it is and increasing the squad sizes.

By Simon Wynne (Portsmouthpark) on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 01:33 pm:

On the Recruitment side - although Steve is the GM and owner - ultimately we are all owners of apex as its in all of our interests for the game to thrive.

As Edd knows I run a recruitment company so I've lots of ideas on how to get more people onboard so that's got to be a must.

More managers = more competitve leagues.

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 05:38 pm:

Sounds good Simon? What's your ideas/plans?

By Simon Wynne (Portsmouthpark) on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 06:54 pm:

Hey Mark,

The GM needs to be onboard with this but i would suggest getting some pro-active marketing along the lines that Macca suggested - hitting the kind of places that Apex-inclined potential managers are hanging out. I'd suggest the lower-league / non league team message boards are a good starter for 10.

I would suggest (rightly or wrongly) that footy fans over the age of 30 who aren't perhaps naturally fans of premier league teams are the most likely target audience. We all know Prem fantasy league is always really well serviced with dream team, etc - I think this game is better targeted at real purists rather than your casual armchair premier league fan. I watch a lot of non-league & lower league as well as lots of prem over the last 20 years and the supporters are different. It's a different game below the premier league really.

These are just my thoughts - don't want to offend anyone as there are always 2 sides to anything - i'm looking at stereotypes for marketing purposes.

This is a good debate - hopefully something comes of it.

Simon.

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 09:15 pm:

Well he has said he will have a good read and then pop on and give his thoughts Simon, so fingers crossed.

By Nigel Richards (Siralex) on Friday, September 13, 2013 - 06:35 pm:

Agree with most of the comments great input . Except 7 going to 6+ been there done that
I'd like to see players being able to be coached when injured or suspended
Perhaps the gm can streamline non managed clubs most are pants old low rated players no incentive for new players to join.
Maybe offer players for winning cups seem to remember we did something ages ago ?
And going forward more formations lets get the mid more realistic eg 3-5-2 , 4-5-1 , 5-4-1 that actually work

By Ishvar Sheran (Sirish) on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 10:38 pm:

It is always worth trying to update the game but most ideas will not be taken up unless they are very minor changes - anything as radical as new player positions won't happen.

I still think it is plain crazy we have players start off as 6 rated minimum in most squads. Why have players exist as potentially rated 1-5 then? If we're gonna be practical lets overhaul the ratings so that we start with mostly 3s and 4s not 6 and 7s and scrap the half ratings i.e. 6+ is uprated from 6 to 7 on 50 form not 6 to 6+.

The fees have been low for many years it's true but a 25% increase is a lot and may see me cutting back soon.

By Gary Benjafield (Garyb) on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 09:59 am:

EP19

This is a business Steve is running so increases do have to happen, its a pain as I've had to drop a team but being realistic it had to happen at some point.

Changes

We've all had our own opinions / ideas but honestly can't see any or much being implemented. Mr Fisher seems to be our Union leader (lol) and gets small in puts now and then like extra free agents etc so I'm grateful of this.

At the end of the day were all Apex addicts so leaving the game as it is I'm still more than happy.

Don't think I've had any game credits for the last season or two so this is the only thing I'd like to be bought back in for winning leagues etc

By Denis Flavin (Denffc) on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 11:33 am:

I think there have been a lot of great suggestions on this thread. Changes to the game itself will I guess be dependant on the computer Apex use and the cost of implementing them although Steve GM would be the person to answer that. Increased cost to Apex would result in increases for us and I'm not sure how that would be welcomed. Extra games in the cups would help as it is possible to only get one game in KO Cup which I suspect will also cost £5-6 to enter. There are only a few managed teams in my league so unmanaged teams will be needed but extra morale etc would be useful. The league costs as has been said have not risen greatly over the years but I think the cups need to be revamped or reduce their entrance fee. Apex is really like ain informal members club and many managers have had a lot of fun with it. Long may it continue

By Philip Burton (Lordburt) on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 11:05 am:

I certainly dont think that too much needs to be tinkered with regarding the actual game, Its basic, its fun, its easy to play. price increases do happen but if we could get more for our increased fees most i imagine would be happy, £6 for the League Cup would be much more acceptable if it had 5 rounds (with managed clubs playing unmanaged in R1) R1 played 12-16, R2 played 20-24 QF played 28-32 SF 36-40 F played 44-46 (32 team competition) The same could happen with the KO Cup (5 Rounds) played at games 28, 32, 36, 40 and 46 with replays in the same turn too. I cant see how an extra round could cause the GM too much extra work. The Transfer Market needs tinkering with too. Its all well and good the GM putting up a few 8/7+/7s from unmanaged clubs (a 10 rated is up in p21 this turn) but these are only going to be signed by the leagues richer clubs, young 5*s 5+*s 6*s and 6+s should also be put up for the poorer clubs and those who like to develope players, Again i dont see how GM ensuring at least 10 players are on the TM each turn would add to his workload too much. With money leaving clubs to unmanaged sides all GM needs to do is increase TV money etc to reintroduce cash, Again this isn't a big programme change. Im happy to pay more if i feel im getting more each turn.

By Mark Dunn (Marklfc) on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 07:48 pm:

Good points Phil, agree.

By Steve - GM (Apexsteve) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 12:22 pm:

OK, folks, have finally managed to have a good read of all the comments/suggestions made on this thread and it's really great to be reminded again just how much you guys care about the game, even after it's been in existence for 26 years.
Firstly, sorry for not being able to put any feedback up until now, but it's purely down to a combination of trying to keep on top of things whilst processing the leagues and also allowing enough time for managers to have their say, as well as realising that a reply to the thread was not going to take a few minutes to write, but would require a thoughtful response after all the time you've taken to come up with the suggestions.
Personally, we would love to bring in all kinds of improvements, but we are severely restricted due to the age of the game programs and, therefore, can only introduce ideas that avoid programming wherever possible.
We can certainly look to increase the amount of unmanaged teams entered into the Cups so that an extra round of matches can help teams build up players' form, so wherever possible we will try to start cup comps with 32 teams, as long as a decent amount of managed teams enter.
As you know, we do put up players from unmanaged teams on the transfer market fairly regularly, but we can certainly increase the regularity and amount of players for sale with a greater variety of skill levels.
Youth Team Scouts have been improved recently and this will also result in more transfer activity.
As stated before, other ideas that were suggested are also food for thought, but, at the moment, we will look to bring in the two we've highlighted, increasing cup entries and improving the transfer market.
Game credits are available as follows, but managers need to let us know if they qualify at the end of the season, when we are doing pre-season changes, etc:
Divisional winners: 10 games
R/U: 8 games
Pos 3+4: 6 games
Cup winners: 8 games
r/u: 6
Regarding marketing the game to increase membership, this can only take place if we are able to update the software technology currently being used, which we are looking into with new developers, but there is a big question mark whether our old programs can be adapted or whether they would have to be completely rewritten, which is a whole new ball game -literally!

By Steven Campanelle (Campo1976) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 12:31 pm:

Thanks for the response Steve GM. Top man.

By Michael Eddisford (Steady) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 12:43 pm:

Steve

Honest answer please.......are new members something that interests you? I understand if it isn't and I don't know what else you do but just a question......

Also, good news about the cups and possible tweaks to transfer market...very welcome indeed

Edd

By Mackenzie Hope (Macca) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 12:44 pm:

GM - thanks for your response , can you just clarify the bit about marketing to increase membership and why it can only be done if the software can be updated ?

By Steve - GM (Apexsteve) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:37 pm:

Edd, we would love to increase membership, no mystery there, mate...
Macca, as you're probably aware, new internet technology has caused us problems due to new database software upgrades, new browsers, smartphones, tablets, etc, it's all extremely difficult to keep up unless you're a big company. Anyway, this has meant that potential new managers would have problems accessing some areas of our website, which means that any attempts at marketing would be immediately hindered and miss the mark, hence we need to update the website first, which is what we are looking into, but - alongside website changes - we need to see if our actual game programs can also be changed, which is a far trickier proposition ( and a lot costlier!).

By Mackenzie Hope (Macca) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:49 pm:

Cheers GM

By Michael Eddisford (Steady) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:53 pm:

Cheers Steve

What you are saying makes perfect sense. I'm not an expert on this sort of stuff but appreciate you taking the time to come on here and the dialogue is most welcome, cheers

By Philip Burton (Lordburt) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 02:17 pm:

Nice work Steve, Naturally im a little bit embarrassed its only my ideas that you are trying to implement into the game ;) But hopefully an increase in Cup sides will lead to more managed sides taking part and a more active TM could snowball into a more active transfer scene.

By Michael Eddisford (Steady) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 02:40 pm:

Wasn't that Macca's idea Phil about the cups lol

By Philip Burton (Lordburt) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 02:57 pm:

I took Macca's idea and grew it Edd :)lol

By Michael Eddisford (Steady) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 03:01 pm:

Ha ha.......

Will be good to see those particular chnages implemented

By Simon Wynne (Portsmouthpark) on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 07:21 pm:

Hey Steve,

Appreciate the feedback.

Having specced and paid for a database evolution over the last 9 years (with work) I fully appreciate your comments - its expensive and you are very muich limited by the capability of your system to make changes.

Realistically a total rebuild is probably out of the question financially.

Improving the cups and more transfer activity have got to be good moves in the right direction. Anything to increase activity levels in the leagues

By Michael Eddisford (Steady) on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 09:17 am:

How about this for an idea which I like came from both myself and Mac having a chat the other day

Players placed on open market cannot get a hit either the turn they are placed on or the turn where they are open to bids. However, they also cannot be used in private deals that turn and cannot be withdrawn once on the market?

By Mackenzie Hope (Macca) on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:46 pm:

Been alot of talk about the lack of activity on the transfer market and by doing what Mika suggests above would people be more likely to use the open market knowing you wouldn't lose a hit on any player ?

By Denis Flavin (Denffc) on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 12:21 pm:

I'm not sure about modern methods of communicating but is there a way that the managers in Apex could maybe publicise the game on forums such as Facebook or could we set up one. I assume there would be no cost and we might get a new manager or two.
If anyone has any thoughts?
Cheers

By Philip Burton (Lordburt) on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 03:25 pm:

While it sounds a nice idea on paper Macca/Edd whats to stop me/anyone operating with a squad of 12 decent players and 2 rubbish players (4s or 36 year olds etc) and constantly leaving them on the TM at £50,000,000 knowing they will never get sold and never cost me a hit......

By Mackenzie Hope (Macca) on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 03:36 pm:

Your point about abusing the market was mentioned by Edd and will I expect be the reason the GM will not sanction it .


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